‘If there were controversy, I never think it’s bad’

Director Edward Berger didn’t intend for his new movie Conclave to be “a takedown of the Catholic Church,” though some may see it that way.

The film, which is now in theaters, follows Cardinal Lawrence (Ralph Fiennes) as he assembles a group of religious leaders known as a conclave to select a new pope. They gossip and campaign while scandals from papal candidates are revealed, as well as tension between progressive and conservative factions.

Berger told Yahoo Entertainment that he “tried to portray … the characters in the movie as humans.”

“Humans make mistakes and have problems and are weighed down by their conscience,” he said. “That’s what I’m embracing, not all the evils of [the Catholic Church], but just trying to understand what humans are.”

On Oct. 5, weeks before the film was released in theaters, conservative commentator Ben Shapiro shared a video about Conclave, titled “Catholics Should Be PISSED At This Movie.” He read the Robert Harris book on which the movie was based and determined that Berger’s film was “about how the traditional Catholic Church is evil and how the church needs to become a progressive bastion.”

“This is not a movie that is going to take Catholicism seriously,” Shapiro said in the video. “It’s gonna use all the trappings of Catholicism to preach about the evils of the Catholic Church.”

A review on the Catholic news site Angelus said the movie was “full of bias against the Catholic Church.” A post about the film in Catholic League condemned it as “anti-Catholic propaganda.” An Indiana priest said in a YouTube video that the film is “about mocking salvation.”

Berger told Yahoo Entertainment that he sees arguments and discussions about the movie as “a good thing.”

“In the end, if there were controversy, I never think it’s bad. I invite that. I love that. We’ve lost the ability to argue with each other without fighting each other,” he said. “And if everyone has a different opinion and a different feeling, that’s a good thing.

“If I disagree with you, I might learn something from you … and suddenly go, ‘Ah, OK, never thought about it that way. Thank you for teaching me,’” he added.

Berger said that they tried to portray the process of forming a conclave and selecting a new pope as accurately as possible but filled in the gaps in their knowledge with their own ideas.

“After all, it is a movie,” he said.

Ralph Fiennes told Yahoo Entertainment that he understands why people are drawn to stories about secretive worlds, from religious gatherings to spy stories.

“If you keep something hidden, I want to know what you’ve got,” he said. “It’s a catalyst for people’s curiosity.”

The fact that conclaves are “ancient” and involve “all these rituals” contributes to the intrigue as well, Fiennes added.

“Is it outmoded, outdated? Possibly, yes, but it’s there, it’s going on,” he said. “So here’s this ancient ritual still happening, which is still, it’s still secret. I think all those things make it dramatically potent.”

Berger said he hopes audience members relate to Fiennes’s character, Lawrence, who takes on a major leadership role despite his struggle with faith.

“I personally love … Lawrence’s inner arc, and this wrestling with who he is and his purpose in the world,” Berger said. “If people go through this journey with him, I’m really happy.”

Conclave is in theaters now.